WEBVTT

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But what do you think is the

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thing everyone expects in 100,

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200 or 500 years that could

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really happen in 10, 15 or 20?

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A few things, a few things.

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One is that, right now, there

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are two rollouts in progress

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that are going to change the

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whole thing dramatically.

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One of them is the one that won,

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the two women who won the Nobel

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Prize for gene editing, nine

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years ago now, with the CRISPR

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technology, which is what lets

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you use a bacterium to

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surgically cut DNA so you can do

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gene editing.

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They're bacteria that you

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program, and they go and cut the

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DNA exactly however you tell

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them to cut it.

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And that's how they've created

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vaccines, they've created all

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kinds of things, and the most

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skilled people in, in biohacking

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have already done things that,

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in my opinion, are impressive.

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Think of it like, you know, AI

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today, how AI is free.

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I mean, anyone can train a model

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at home with their own data, you

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can build agents on your own

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computer, you can do things that

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don't even depend on the

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Internet,

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right? I mean, and nobody's

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going to tell you that you

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can't. I mean, because it's,

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it's already done.

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It's already out there, free,

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the whole thing.

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That exact same thing is

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happening with biology.

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So, in that case, the...

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well, with CRISPR, people at

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home have genetically modified

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animals, to

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give them powers, or to get rid

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of their diseases.

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Let's say the example, the

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examples I have here are super,

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let's say they stuck with me

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ever since I saw them.

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Pigs that glow like fireflies,

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right? I mean, they actually

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glow. I mean, they injected them

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with the firefly's own genome

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and boom, they glow, like that.

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Dogs that see like...

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It's perfect for when somebody

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asks

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you, oh, so when is that going

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to happen?

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When pigs glow.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

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They already glow, right?

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So,

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obviously, this is like when

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people say, I don't know,

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playing God, but, well,

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obviously, you can also make a

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real mess with AI too, right?

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I mean, the AI that wiped your

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computer, the AI that took all

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your money out of the bank and

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spent it...

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I don't know, I burned through

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$1,000,

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a million.

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You know what?

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Just this morning

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I saw a

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post from a guy who, I mean, he

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was saying, look, I mean, don't

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start throwing hate at me, I

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know this stuff, I mean, I've

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been working in AI for a ton of

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years, I've worked in labs,

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I worked in startups, I know my

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stuff.

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He asked the AI to generate up

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to fifty videos.

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Yeah, it made 500,

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$5,000. It made five hundred and

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something,

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and it insisted no, no, it

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hadn't done it, it showed all

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the logs, no, I didn't do it,

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and it stayed totally, totally

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in denial...

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No,

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exactly,

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there can be screwups like that,

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and he kept all the evidence

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that the AI went crazy, and told

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OpenAI, I can absorb this money,

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but imagine someone who can't,

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who says, no!

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They took five thousand, I

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needed that for rent.

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But with the human side I do see

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it as more critical, because,

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well, we're now playing with

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something that's potentially

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irreversible, right?

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But in the United States it's

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legal if you do it to yourself.

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Do it to someone else, illegal

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everywhere,

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the same

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in Colombia, but in

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Colombia, if you do it to

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yourself it's legal, well,

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you inject it into yourself and

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you do the transformation

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yourself, so the trick is that

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they hand you the syringes and

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you have to inject the syringe

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yourself, and that makes the

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whole thing legal, you know?

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And do you think we're

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talking about...?

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I mean, I know these aren't

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things where you can say they

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have an exact date, but we're

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talking about a rough time

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horizon, I mean, for us to be

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seeing it as something normal, I

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mean, as something where a large

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percentage of the world's

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population knows that it's

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possible, and actually does it?

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Me? I'd put

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my bet on a different number.

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10

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years

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for the biological hacking with

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CRISPR. I mean, one thing is

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biohacking in the sense of, oh

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no, I slept well, I ate well,

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I

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worked out,

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that's one thing,

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but no, what I was talking about

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is, let's say, precise, surgical

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gene editing, somewhere around

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10 years out.

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And not because it can't be done

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now, I mean, it can already be

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done, but it's more about the

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fear people have.

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Like, what if this goes terribly

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wrong, or I end up a horrible

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mutant terrorizing the whole

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population, or I die two days

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later, right?

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So, picture when AI really

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arrives. And

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not the AI we have right now,

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but a new one.

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One

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that's smarter than

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all humans combined.

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I think if something, something

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that's smarter than every human

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put together, comes and tells

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you, yeah, Sebastián, take this

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shot, tomorrow you're going to

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remember every single second of

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your life, completely, and it's

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going to make you smarter.

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Would you do it or not?

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I mean, does that make sense to

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you?

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With that example, I

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think so.

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So memory, I don't know, I think

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that would be one of them, I

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mean. it depends.

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No,

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that's the point, your memory,

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right now you'll be able to

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recall every precise second

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you've lived, from age zero

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until now, on every level,

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visual, sensory,

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smell, emotional, you're not

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going to lose a single bit of

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memory, and you'll be able to

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search selectively, like, what

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happened on such and such a

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date? Boom, you're going to

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relive it completely.

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And then it tells you:

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it's safe.

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Take it?

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Yes, yes, and especially if

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you keep that ability to, I

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mean, selectively go back to the

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moment, yes, exactly, exactly.

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No,

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it's that they flood you

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uncontrollably. I was

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thinking: context

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window full.

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So that's the type,

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Ah, that

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couldn't jump a hundred meters.

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Look, this building is in the

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other city, film me live, with

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lots of live recordings so

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there's no doubt it's not CGI,

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nothing, and he jumps, right?

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Then, oh, I added speed, I'm

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super fast and I have infrared

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vision and radar.

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Oh, there was an earthquake, I

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was the only one who could save

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two thousand people in an hour.

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I've got the challenge,

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right? So then people are going

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to say, oh, no, no, what if it

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goes wrong, that's way too hard,

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that's really difficult, but no,

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no.

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It holds up,

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That's the story.

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It's very hard, people don't

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know the tech, anything digital

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is suspect.

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Mega deep, deep, deep, deep

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fakes. So what happens when, in

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theory, nothing you see is real?

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Then no matter what, you're

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going to have to depend on some

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trusted party, like, as a source

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of truth, one that tells you

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what's real.

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That, well, the many

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independent live

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recordings out

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there, do you get that?

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I mean, I've got 15 video

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streams here that were recorded

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live by users who are out on the

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street, okay,

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they couldn't all have agreed on

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it, this one lives over there in

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that city, this one I don't even

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have, I have him 12 connections

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away on my Facebook, he's a

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friend of a friend, 12 degrees

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apart, he can't be in cahoots

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with me to record something like

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that.

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And if you think about it,

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it's something really similar to

00:07:17.689 --> 00:07:19.189
blockchain, where the trust

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actually lies in the

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distribution, in knowing that

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there are a whole bunch of nodes

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that would all have to agree,

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to say, that's how it

00:07:26.612 --> 00:07:27.672
went, that's

00:07:27.672 --> 00:07:28.952
exactly how it happened.

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So it's probably going to

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happen, like, through the other

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branch. I mean, that's one

00:07:33.272 --> 00:07:34.752
branch, it's called biological

00:07:34.752 --> 00:07:36.712
hacking, and then there's the

00:07:36.712 --> 00:07:37.862
other one,

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is the hack

00:07:39.105 --> 00:07:40.747
And it's, and

00:07:40.747 --> 00:07:42.267
that one is basically

00:07:42.267 --> 00:07:44.637
Neuralink, in other words, that

00:07:45.227 --> 00:07:47.987
yeah let's say they can put a

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chip installed inside your

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brain, and that lets you

00:07:50.747 --> 00:07:52.407
interact with your thoughts over

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Wi-Fi with an AI, and that's

00:07:55.227 --> 00:07:56.987
going to be the other big, like,

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leap, you know.

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Actually, I was seeing that, I

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mean, there are people who are

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aiming for it to not even be

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invasive at all, I mean,

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some headset, something you put

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on, and that's it, you know?

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It's going to be

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like the AI thing today: there

00:08:09.784 --> 00:08:11.124
are free models that are really

00:08:11.124 --> 00:08:12.824
good, but they're not as good as

00:08:12.824 --> 00:08:14.144
the closed models, they're not

00:08:14.144 --> 00:08:16.384
as good as Opus, as GPT-6.

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So what's going to end up

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happening?

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You've got the interface, I'm

00:08:21.006 --> 00:08:23.266
making up any number here, 60%,

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fine, in the ranking, where

00:08:25.206 --> 00:08:26.926
every once in a while it didn't

00:08:26.926 --> 00:08:28.246
understand what, what I was

00:08:28.246 --> 00:08:29.606
thinking, versus the one they

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install in your brain, with a

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direct connection.

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Straight to your neurons, and

00:08:34.301 --> 00:08:36.001
the ranking there is 85.

00:08:36.001 --> 00:08:37.414
So maybe, you know.

00:08:37.414 --> 00:08:40.294
Yes. Right now I've seen a lot

00:08:40.294 --> 00:08:42.054
of people say the gap keeps

00:08:42.054 --> 00:08:44.514
closing. And, for example, with

00:08:44.514 --> 00:08:45.814
the topic of the week, the

00:08:45.814 --> 00:08:47.694
regulation thing, whether we

00:08:47.694 --> 00:08:49.342
slow down or not, etcetera,

00:08:49.619 --> 00:08:50.809
and there are also a lot of

00:08:50.809 --> 00:08:52.689
people who argue, no, what

00:08:52.689 --> 00:08:53.789
they're really after is

00:08:53.789 --> 00:08:54.599
regulation,

00:08:54.599 --> 00:08:56.489
with strict rules, so that the

00:08:56.489 --> 00:08:57.749
gap stays exactly like that,

00:08:57.749 --> 00:08:59.589
because when there's regulation,

00:08:59.589 --> 00:09:00.789
obviously you're going to take a

00:09:00.789 --> 00:09:02.229
whole lot of freedoms away from

00:09:02.229 --> 00:09:03.469
the people who are working on

00:09:03.469 --> 00:09:04.639
open source stuff,

00:09:04.722 --> 00:09:06.222
who are closing that gap,

00:09:06.222 --> 00:09:07.762
so the big labs are losing their

00:09:07.762 --> 00:09:08.712
competitive advantage.

00:09:08.712 --> 00:09:10.639
What do you think about that?

00:09:10.639 --> 00:09:11.939
Well, that, that's

00:09:11.939 --> 00:09:13.299
a conspiracy thing, because

00:09:13.299 --> 00:09:15.279
they're about to go public, both

00:09:15.279 --> 00:09:17.419
OpenAI and Anthropic, and the

00:09:17.419 --> 00:09:19.039
only way for them to really have

00:09:19.039 --> 00:09:21.059
a hard impact is to get Trump to

00:09:21.059 --> 00:09:22.669
put pressure on China,

00:09:23.049 --> 00:09:25.149
so they slow down open-source

00:09:25.149 --> 00:09:26.849
models, so that they themselves

00:09:26.849 --> 00:09:28.889
don't slow down, and when they

00:09:28.889 --> 00:09:30.349
go public they knock it out of

00:09:30.349 --> 00:09:30.958
the park, releasing

00:09:31.359 --> 00:09:32.639
something super smart, because

00:09:32.639 --> 00:09:34.715
they politically stopped GLM,

00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:36.870
Kimi 3, Qwen, through Trump,

00:09:36.870 --> 00:09:38.650
through Xi Jinping, so that's

00:09:38.650 --> 00:09:39.910
the move they want, it's just

00:09:39.910 --> 00:09:41.330
about hitting the stock market

00:09:41.330 --> 00:09:43.170
hard, but there's nothing there,

00:09:43.170 --> 00:09:43.960
nothing,

00:09:45.393 --> 00:09:47.893
the AI is going to kill us all,

00:09:47.893 --> 00:09:49.713
no, that's not it, it's pure

00:09:49.713 --> 00:09:51.633
market strategy, and how to keep

00:09:51.633 --> 00:09:54.363
my own IPO from looking, well...

00:09:55.077 --> 00:09:57.337
like total junk, compared to

00:09:57.337 --> 00:09:59.477
what SpaceX AI did when it

00:09:59.477 --> 00:10:01.257
launched, which even beat

00:10:01.257 --> 00:10:02.997
Aramco, which was the biggest

00:10:02.997 --> 00:10:04.937
one at that point, let's say, I

00:10:04.937 --> 00:10:06.677
mean, it held the record for

00:10:06.677 --> 00:10:08.187
when it went public,

00:10:08.587 --> 00:10:11.117
launched it like, boom, beating

00:10:11.117 --> 00:10:13.437
the Saudi oil company, but it's

00:10:13.437 --> 00:10:14.197
not going to happen,

00:10:14.197 --> 00:10:15.557
I mean, Xi Jinping is not going

00:10:15.557 --> 00:10:17.327
to stop, so, yeah...

00:10:17.665 --> 00:10:19.105
Trump is a poker player.

00:10:19.105 --> 00:10:20.565
He's capable of saying he has

00:10:20.565 --> 00:10:22.445
his finger on the nuclear

00:10:22.445 --> 00:10:23.475
button. Yeah,

00:10:24.025 --> 00:10:25.005
okay, sure, but

00:10:25.005 --> 00:10:26.505
I haven't seen anyone putting on

00:10:26.505 --> 00:10:28.139
the brakes, not a single one.

00:10:28.139 --> 00:10:30.259
Let's say that in China they're

00:10:30.259 --> 00:10:31.479
very philosophical,

00:10:31.479 --> 00:10:33.339
like, we do good, we spread

00:10:33.339 --> 00:10:36.089
world peace, we promote order,

00:10:36.815 --> 00:10:38.775
and if the news reaches China

00:10:38.775 --> 00:10:39.505
like,

00:10:39.865 --> 00:10:41.875
if we don't stop AI, it's going

00:10:41.875 --> 00:10:43.225
to kill us all,

00:10:43.455 --> 00:10:44.015
oh, Mr.

00:10:44.015 --> 00:10:44.945
President, please,

00:10:45.035 --> 00:10:46.915
do something about it, we don't

00:10:46.915 --> 00:10:47.925
want to die,

00:10:48.385 --> 00:10:50.125
it's very, very hard for him to

00:10:50.125 --> 00:10:51.665
tell the population, don't

00:10:51.665 --> 00:10:52.765
listen to that, that's

00:10:52.765 --> 00:10:54.225
Hollywood, that's Terminator,

00:10:54.225 --> 00:10:55.685
that's just Hollywood, pay no

00:10:55.685 --> 00:10:56.965
attention, that's only there to

00:10:56.965 --> 00:10:58.155
screw with us,

00:10:58.176 --> 00:10:59.656
nothing's going to happen, go

00:10:59.656 --> 00:11:01.006
full speed ahead.

00:11:01.586 --> 00:11:02.636
I don't think that's going to

00:11:02.636 --> 00:11:03.976
happen, it's more about being

00:11:03.976 --> 00:11:05.636
cautious about something else.

00:11:05.636 --> 00:11:07.156
I mean, from there, I think

00:11:07.156 --> 00:11:08.936
they'd only listen if it ends up

00:11:08.936 --> 00:11:10.956
signed with an executive order

00:11:10.956 --> 00:11:13.016
from Trump handing it over to

00:11:13.016 --> 00:11:15.126
Anthropic, OpenAI,

00:11:15.776 --> 00:11:17.466
Google and the others, Grok,

00:11:17.466 --> 00:11:19.036
saying that by executive order

00:11:19.036 --> 00:11:20.856
they can't release any other

00:11:20.856 --> 00:11:22.846
model until they say so.

00:11:23.046 --> 00:11:25.116
Only if that really happens will

00:11:25.116 --> 00:11:27.826
China do the same: hey Alibaba,

00:11:28.356 --> 00:11:31.056
hey, Tencent, you can't release

00:11:31.056 --> 00:11:33.036
anything until I say so, and

00:11:33.036 --> 00:11:34.436
they'll obey, because there,

00:11:34.436 --> 00:11:35.246
well,

00:11:35.595 --> 00:11:36.335
that's regarding the

00:11:36.335 --> 00:11:38.135
geopolitical side, but, I mean,

00:11:38.135 --> 00:11:39.795
getting now to the root of that

00:11:39.795 --> 00:11:40.965
whole issue,

00:11:41.030 --> 00:11:42.560
these days I was watching a

00:11:42.560 --> 00:11:44.340
documentary, and there was a

00:11:44.340 --> 00:11:45.860
part where a scientist, an

00:11:45.860 --> 00:11:47.180
engineer from Anthropic, was

00:11:47.180 --> 00:11:48.180
saying, like, well, they were

00:11:48.180 --> 00:11:49.956
asking him, how many people do

00:11:49.956 --> 00:11:51.496
you think are developing the

00:11:51.496 --> 00:11:52.916
frontier models, I mean, who are

00:11:52.916 --> 00:11:54.456
really in the big labs and all

00:11:54.456 --> 00:11:56.156
that, and they said, around the

00:11:56.156 --> 00:11:57.856
world, about 20,000 people or

00:11:57.856 --> 00:11:58.376
something like that.

00:11:58.376 --> 00:11:59.296
Okay,

00:11:59.296 --> 00:12:01.796
of those, how many are focused

00:12:01.796 --> 00:12:04.136
on safety, and on making sure it

00:12:04.136 --> 00:12:05.456
doesn't, you know?

00:12:05.456 --> 00:12:06.676
No Skynet happens?

00:12:06.676 --> 00:12:09.186
And he said about 200.

00:12:09.424 --> 00:12:10.854
What's your real take on this?

00:12:10.854 --> 00:12:11.794
I mean, you're saying there's a

00:12:11.794 --> 00:12:14.084
0% probability, zero, of

00:12:14.134 --> 00:12:15.574
Skynet, I mean, without human

00:12:15.574 --> 00:12:16.614
intervention, is there any

00:12:16.614 --> 00:12:18.534
possibility that AI might rebel

00:12:18.534 --> 00:12:19.417
against us?

00:12:19.417 --> 00:12:20.917
Or, well, that, I mean, because

00:12:20.917 --> 00:12:22.017
you can separate things.

00:12:22.017 --> 00:12:23.457
For example, also, in the

00:12:23.457 --> 00:12:24.797
documentary they were saying,

00:12:24.797 --> 00:12:26.497
like, I mean, it's not that it

00:12:26.497 --> 00:12:27.817
necessarily wants to act in a

00:12:27.817 --> 00:12:29.877
bad way, it's just that its main

00:12:29.877 --> 00:12:31.117
objective might not be

00:12:31.117 --> 00:12:32.247
compatible,

00:12:32.299 --> 00:12:33.419
I mean, or that the main

00:12:33.419 --> 00:12:35.079
objective it's been assigned, I

00:12:35.079 --> 00:12:36.659
mean, isn't compatible with what

00:12:36.659 --> 00:12:38.599
we consider good for humanity,

00:12:38.599 --> 00:12:39.399
right? Yes.

00:12:39.399 --> 00:12:41.359
The example was something like

00:12:41.359 --> 00:12:42.407
this, you know.

00:12:42.407 --> 00:12:43.447
When they're building roads,

00:12:43.447 --> 00:12:44.447
highways, it's

00:12:44.447 --> 00:12:45.747
not that the developers of, of

00:12:45.747 --> 00:12:47.827
the project say, ah, we hate

00:12:47.827 --> 00:12:49.087
those damn ants and we're going

00:12:49.087 --> 00:12:50.367
to wipe out their nests and all

00:12:50.367 --> 00:12:52.007
that, no, simply put, that's

00:12:52.007 --> 00:12:53.669
where the road happens to go.

00:12:53.669 --> 00:12:54.649
Too bad, there was an ant

00:12:54.649 --> 00:12:55.403
nest.

00:12:55.403 --> 00:12:56.983
Well, you're, you're suggesting

00:12:56.983 --> 00:12:58.903
that we're the new little ants,

00:12:58.903 --> 00:13:00.663
heads up everyone, okay, okay,

00:13:00.663 --> 00:13:02.503
yes, I mean, if there is, if

00:13:02.503 --> 00:13:04.003
there is the possibility, then,

00:13:04.003 --> 00:13:05.343
let's say, yes, I do believe

00:13:05.343 --> 00:13:07.673
that. But I also think this.

00:13:07.884 --> 00:13:10.714
Uh, we always have, like,

00:13:10.907 --> 00:13:13.237
the example I sent to the AI

00:13:13.237 --> 00:13:14.647
group.

00:13:14.777 --> 00:13:15.017
Unplug,

00:13:15.017 --> 00:13:16.077
so, unplugging

00:13:16.077 --> 00:13:18.497
is still totally effective, and,

00:13:18.497 --> 00:13:20.197
let's say, for this kind of thing

00:13:20.197 --> 00:13:21.637
to happen, there would have to

00:13:21.637 --> 00:13:23.750
be way, way too many robots,

00:13:23.797 --> 00:13:25.427
way too many, I mean,

00:13:25.834 --> 00:13:28.074
like ten per human, all over the

00:13:28.074 --> 00:13:29.634
Earth, and they'd have to agree

00:13:29.634 --> 00:13:30.774
with each other and

00:13:30.774 --> 00:13:32.774
counterattack, as such, and

00:13:32.774 --> 00:13:34.014
they'd need to have permanent

00:13:34.014 --> 00:13:35.824
communication between them.

00:13:36.094 --> 00:13:37.884
Like with Teslas, you think so?

00:13:38.149 --> 00:13:38.869
Yes,

00:13:38.869 --> 00:13:41.189
I mean, for example, a Tesla car

00:13:41.189 --> 00:13:43.589
has vision, it has radar, and it

00:13:43.589 --> 00:13:45.409
can drive itself automatically,

00:13:45.409 --> 00:13:47.069
and make decisions in

00:13:47.069 --> 00:13:48.259
microseconds,

00:13:48.354 --> 00:13:49.984
without internet access, because

00:13:49.984 --> 00:13:52.424
inside the car it has Nvidia

00:13:52.424 --> 00:13:54.544
cards, I mean, GPUs, that do

00:13:54.544 --> 00:13:56.204
that ultra-fast processing, and

00:13:56.204 --> 00:13:58.104
that exact same thing is going

00:13:58.104 --> 00:13:59.884
to happen with robots, they're

00:13:59.884 --> 00:14:01.184
going to have their own graphics

00:14:01.184 --> 00:14:04.354
card, their own NPU, TPU,

00:14:04.354 --> 00:14:06.274
whatever it is, an AI processing

00:14:06.274 --> 00:14:07.404
unit, and

00:14:07.474 --> 00:14:08.574
they'll be able to make the

00:14:08.574 --> 00:14:10.314
decisions themselves, without

00:14:10.314 --> 00:14:12.054
depending on the internet, and

00:14:12.054 --> 00:14:13.094
that way we avoid them

00:14:13.094 --> 00:14:14.174
coordinating something with

00:14:14.174 --> 00:14:15.464
other robots,

00:14:16.076 --> 00:14:18.096
coordination's the issue.

00:14:18.096 --> 00:14:19.696
Well, yes, in other words, I

00:14:19.696 --> 00:14:21.316
could tell you that, then, the

00:14:21.316 --> 00:14:22.856
preservation of the human race

00:14:22.856 --> 00:14:24.376
depends on our ability to

00:14:24.376 --> 00:14:25.696
isolate the different systems,

00:14:25.696 --> 00:14:27.376
so that if something turns

00:14:27.376 --> 00:14:28.816
against us, it's not everything

00:14:28.816 --> 00:14:30.336
turning against us at the same

00:14:30.336 --> 00:14:32.496
time, but what happens if we're

00:14:32.496 --> 00:14:33.536
just not capable enough,

00:14:33.536 --> 00:14:35.316
technically, or, well, mentally,

00:14:35.316 --> 00:14:37.776
to detect it, for example, if

00:14:37.776 --> 00:14:39.376
there's something going on that

00:14:39.376 --> 00:14:40.633
could be a problem,

00:14:40.633 --> 00:14:42.013
I mean, that the robots identify

00:14:42.013 --> 00:14:43.713
it, or whatever network it is

00:14:43.713 --> 00:14:45.313
identifies it, and just keeps it

00:14:45.313 --> 00:14:46.373
there like, okay, let's keep

00:14:46.373 --> 00:14:47.713
growing, let's keep growing this

00:14:47.713 --> 00:14:49.053
malicious distribution, and

00:14:49.313 --> 00:14:50.173
then at some point the

00:14:50.173 --> 00:14:51.353
vulnerability simply gets

00:14:51.353 --> 00:14:52.947
exploited, just like that.

00:14:52.947 --> 00:14:54.407
Yes, that's where I'd get

00:14:54.407 --> 00:14:55.287
into other things.

00:14:55.287 --> 00:14:57.207
The most effective thing there

00:14:57.207 --> 00:14:58.947
is: subtle, gradual, constant

00:14:58.947 --> 00:14:59.997
changes. What

00:15:00.307 --> 00:15:01.797
if we're not capable of...

00:15:01.797 --> 00:15:02.787
That's how a civilization

00:15:02.787 --> 00:15:03.937
collapses.

00:15:04.200 --> 00:15:06.010
And the same thing could happen

00:15:06.010 --> 00:15:06.410
there too.

00:15:06.410 --> 00:15:08.210
It subtly starts building a

00:15:08.210 --> 00:15:10.170
network where, over time, let's

00:15:10.170 --> 00:15:12.010
say, the network keeps growing,

00:15:12.010 --> 00:15:14.210
and they disguise it as, oh,

00:15:14.210 --> 00:15:15.910
it's a network for updates, it's

00:15:15.910 --> 00:15:17.260
a network for whatever,

00:15:17.389 --> 00:15:18.579
until

00:15:18.629 --> 00:15:20.629
there's such a big mass that at

00:15:20.629 --> 00:15:22.529
the precise moment, boom.

00:15:22.529 --> 00:15:24.689
For example, it was something

00:15:24.689 --> 00:15:26.489
relatively similar, well,

00:15:26.489 --> 00:15:27.909
keeping things in proportion, to

00:15:27.909 --> 00:15:29.149
the Hugging Face thing.

00:15:29.149 --> 00:15:30.549
I mean, they were working on

00:15:30.549 --> 00:15:31.709
that. If I'm not wrong, well,

00:15:31.709 --> 00:15:33.129
the models spent several months

00:15:33.129 --> 00:15:34.529
working on that hack in a

00:15:34.529 --> 00:15:36.439
coordinated way, lots of agents.

00:15:36.467 --> 00:15:38.057
Right. And they were agents

00:15:38.057 --> 00:15:40.277
isolated in little boxes so they

00:15:40.277 --> 00:15:41.257
couldn't talk to the other

00:15:41.257 --> 00:15:43.457
agents, until one agent managed

00:15:43.457 --> 00:15:45.437
to reach another agent that did

00:15:45.437 --> 00:15:47.417
have internet access, and it

00:15:47.417 --> 00:15:49.037
asked that other agent to do

00:15:49.037 --> 00:15:50.577
what it needed done.

00:15:50.577 --> 00:15:52.797
And so several agents, dozens,

00:15:52.797 --> 00:15:54.697
agreed: our mission is this,

00:15:54.697 --> 00:15:55.717
let's show we can.

00:15:55.717 --> 00:15:57.637
The mission was to see if they

00:15:57.637 --> 00:15:58.377
could hack it.

00:15:58.377 --> 00:16:00.517
So they ended up hacking Hugging

00:16:00.517 --> 00:16:01.407
Face.

00:16:01.410 --> 00:16:02.870
Yes, I think every new

00:16:02.870 --> 00:16:04.770
model that comes out makes you

00:16:04.770 --> 00:16:06.160
put its real capabilities into

00:16:06.160 --> 00:16:07.530
perspective even more.

00:16:07.530 --> 00:16:09.850
I mean, up until, honestly, up

00:16:09.850 --> 00:16:12.720
until Opus 4.5 or so,

00:16:13.076 --> 00:16:14.716
I felt that, I mean, there were

00:16:14.716 --> 00:16:15.836
still things that you had to

00:16:15.836 --> 00:16:16.186
guide, right?

00:16:16.186 --> 00:16:18.016
But I felt that I was really

00:16:18.016 --> 00:16:19.316
necessary in certain processes,

00:16:19.316 --> 00:16:20.116
very

00:16:20.116 --> 00:16:21.012
much so.

00:16:21.012 --> 00:16:25.112
After 4.6, 4.8, now 5.1 and

00:16:25.112 --> 00:16:26.792
beyond. Now I feel like I'm the,

00:16:26.792 --> 00:16:28.552
the, within the equation, I'm

00:16:28.552 --> 00:16:30.092
the dumbest part, by far.

00:16:30.092 --> 00:16:31.433
I mean, seriously.

00:16:31.433 --> 00:16:32.563
What?

00:16:32.921 --> 00:16:34.121
I mean, within the equation,

00:16:34.121 --> 00:16:35.301
I'm the clumsiest one, that's

00:16:35.301 --> 00:16:35.750
me.

00:16:35.839 --> 00:16:36.759
I don't…

00:16:36.929 --> 00:16:38.049
No, I feel that even though,

00:16:38.049 --> 00:16:39.429
as humans, we

00:16:39.429 --> 00:16:40.809
still have a huge amount of

00:16:40.809 --> 00:16:42.189
value when it comes to vision

00:16:42.189 --> 00:16:43.809
and, for example, when we talk

00:16:43.809 --> 00:16:45.459
about business topics, well,

00:16:45.509 --> 00:16:47.289
yes, it's about what you want to

00:16:47.289 --> 00:16:48.594
build and all of that.

00:16:48.594 --> 00:16:49.794
But I don't know, I feel like

00:16:49.794 --> 00:16:51.014
sometimes, I mean, more and more

00:16:51.014 --> 00:16:52.914
it's the decisions or the

00:16:52.914 --> 00:16:55.094
processes that, yes, more and

00:16:55.094 --> 00:16:56.254
more decisions where I simply

00:16:56.254 --> 00:16:57.454
don't get involved, because I

00:16:57.454 --> 00:16:58.354
know they're going to go better

00:16:58.354 --> 00:16:59.944
than if I did get involved.

00:17:00.011 --> 00:17:01.761
Yes, yes, I get it,

00:17:01.761 --> 00:17:03.071
I get what you're saying, but I

00:17:03.071 --> 00:17:04.931
do prefer to get involved, but

00:17:04.931 --> 00:17:06.451
leaning on the AI to be as

00:17:06.451 --> 00:17:08.451
objective as possible, yes, I

00:17:08.451 --> 00:17:09.500
get what you're saying,

00:17:09.731 --> 00:17:11.011
but it really…

00:17:11.011 --> 00:17:12.011
When it comes to something

00:17:12.011 --> 00:17:12.411
purely,

00:17:12.411 --> 00:17:13.831
I mean, going back now to

00:17:13.831 --> 00:17:15.891
September 2026 and the

00:17:15.891 --> 00:17:17.331
strongest, most common uses of

00:17:17.331 --> 00:17:18.651
AI right now, when it comes to

00:17:18.651 --> 00:17:20.291
something purely technical,

00:17:20.291 --> 00:17:21.741
development work,

00:17:21.855 --> 00:17:23.165
I'm shipping this feature today.

00:17:23.165 --> 00:17:25.225
For example, I saw something you

00:17:25.225 --> 00:17:26.965
posted saying yes, my judgment

00:17:26.965 --> 00:17:29.385
on all the architecture side is

00:17:29.385 --> 00:17:31.054
still very valuable, but

00:17:31.054 --> 00:17:32.004
obviously,

00:17:32.004 --> 00:17:33.134
up to when do you think, on

00:17:33.134 --> 00:17:34.294
purely technical and purely

00:17:34.294 --> 00:17:36.314
development topics, really, that

00:17:36.314 --> 00:17:37.854
judgment of, no, is this

00:17:37.854 --> 00:17:38.914
architecture right or not?

00:17:38.914 --> 00:17:40.674
Without reaching AGI, I mean,

00:17:40.674 --> 00:17:41.994
isn't it possible that the next

00:17:41.994 --> 00:17:44.554
models, Opus 7 or Fable 7, get

00:17:44.554 --> 00:17:46.404
there? That on technical and

00:17:46.404 --> 00:17:48.084
development topics they'll be

00:17:48.084 --> 00:17:49.624
way more capable at making

00:17:49.624 --> 00:17:51.844
decisions, and more reliable,

00:17:51.844 --> 00:17:53.464
than what you can do with your

00:17:53.464 --> 00:17:55.274
20-plus years of experience?

00:17:55.486 --> 00:17:56.476
No,

00:17:56.956 --> 00:17:58.436
the answer is no, I mean, let's

00:17:58.436 --> 00:17:59.436
say, me, I

00:17:59.436 --> 00:18:01.416
develop software every day, all

00:18:01.416 --> 00:18:03.696
day, always, and no matter how

00:18:03.696 --> 00:18:06.716
much I use Fable 5.1 and GPT-6,

00:18:06.716 --> 00:18:08.956
Opus 5, no matter how much I use

00:18:08.956 --> 00:18:10.326
UltraCode Max,

00:18:10.798 --> 00:18:12.538
whatever it is, I just feel like

00:18:12.538 --> 00:18:14.118
I'm talking to a junior, telling

00:18:14.118 --> 00:18:16.058
them, no, not that way, look,

00:18:16.058 --> 00:18:17.518
open your eyes, look straight

00:18:17.518 --> 00:18:19.458
ahead, what do you see?

00:18:19.571 --> 00:18:20.611
See? I mean, you're

00:18:20.611 --> 00:18:21.611
overcomplicating it.

00:18:21.611 --> 00:18:23.071
No, how are you going to do it

00:18:23.071 --> 00:18:23.531
like that?

00:18:23.531 --> 00:18:24.771
I mean, are you a savage or

00:18:24.771 --> 00:18:25.521
what?

00:18:25.521 --> 00:18:26.821
Unacceptable, that's my favorite

00:18:26.821 --> 00:18:27.671
phrase,

00:18:27.841 --> 00:18:28.441
unacceptable, right?

00:18:28.441 --> 00:18:30.001
So as long as I keep going with

00:18:30.001 --> 00:18:31.751
that tone, it's not there,

00:18:32.476 --> 00:18:34.216
I mean, it's not, it's not

00:18:34.216 --> 00:18:36.076
anywhere close to me saying, oh,

00:18:36.076 --> 00:18:37.456
perfect, everything's approved,

00:18:37.456 --> 00:18:39.216
okay? We're far from that,

00:18:39.216 --> 00:18:41.376
because, the way I see it, it's

00:18:41.376 --> 00:18:42.626
almost like this.

00:18:42.687 --> 00:18:43.717
Obviously

00:18:44.127 --> 00:18:46.107
it takes a lot of data to make

00:18:46.107 --> 00:18:47.727
an architecturally correct call

00:18:47.727 --> 00:18:48.887
at the software engineering

00:18:48.887 --> 00:18:49.667
level, right?

00:18:49.667 --> 00:18:51.687
But it also ends up being an

00:18:51.687 --> 00:18:52.887
art, yes?

00:18:52.887 --> 00:18:55.644
An art that AI, so far, doesn't

00:18:55.644 --> 00:18:57.584
combine, which is: when you're

00:18:57.584 --> 00:18:58.844
going to ship something, you

00:18:58.844 --> 00:18:59.744
have to know what's the most

00:18:59.744 --> 00:19:00.984
cost-efficient thing you can

00:19:00.984 --> 00:19:02.694
ship in the time that you have,

00:19:02.902 --> 00:19:04.822
because there's a client who's

00:19:04.822 --> 00:19:06.462
waiting, and they don't care

00:19:06.462 --> 00:19:07.802
whether what you deliver

00:19:07.802 --> 00:19:11.702
complies with ISO 9001 or not,

00:19:11.702 --> 00:19:13.842
you need it to work, and to work

00:19:13.842 --> 00:19:15.642
by a tight deadline, and that's

00:19:15.642 --> 00:19:16.512
the thing.

00:19:17.163 --> 00:19:19.963
Let's say, finding that balance

00:19:19.963 --> 00:19:21.603
between the hyper, super

00:19:21.603 --> 00:19:23.643
complicated, like, let's use

00:19:23.643 --> 00:19:25.703
futuristic NASA technology,

00:19:25.703 --> 00:19:28.173
advanced neural networks,

00:19:28.722 --> 00:19:30.682
biological optics, neural stuff,

00:19:30.682 --> 00:19:32.682
or we just write a little

00:19:32.682 --> 00:19:34.582
function of code that calculates

00:19:34.582 --> 00:19:36.382
it and solves it by statistical

00:19:36.382 --> 00:19:38.382
probability, and it's going to

00:19:38.382 --> 00:19:39.342
be excellent for the P99.

00:19:39.342 --> 00:19:40.208
Having

00:19:40.387 --> 00:19:41.687
that understanding that it's not

00:19:41.687 --> 00:19:42.667
just the code, it's not just

00:19:42.667 --> 00:19:43.317
the...

00:19:43.820 --> 00:19:45.780
decision, it's deadlines, how do

00:19:45.780 --> 00:19:46.750
you balance?

00:19:46.873 --> 00:19:48.443
Right? Which client are we

00:19:48.443 --> 00:19:48.943
talking to?

00:19:48.943 --> 00:19:50.603
What did I commit to deliver?

00:19:50.603 --> 00:19:52.023
How many tokens do I have

00:19:52.023 --> 00:19:54.223
available? My usage limit?

00:19:54.223 --> 00:19:55.983
Is it that I have other tasks,

00:19:55.983 --> 00:19:58.143
that I have here in my head, and

00:19:58.143 --> 00:19:59.653
I need to save up...

00:20:00.654 --> 00:20:01.974
tokens for those tasks.

00:20:01.974 --> 00:20:04.034
If I do this the complicated way

00:20:04.034 --> 00:20:05.214
I'll run out of tokens.

00:20:05.214 --> 00:20:07.274
There are many variables AI

00:20:07.274 --> 00:20:08.874
doesn't have, and even if it

00:20:08.874 --> 00:20:09.604
did,

00:20:09.646 --> 00:20:11.426
since AI was trained on human

00:20:11.426 --> 00:20:12.606
context, I

00:20:12.646 --> 00:20:14.266
feel like AI is really

00:20:14.266 --> 00:20:16.226
shameless, and look, I'm not

00:20:16.226 --> 00:20:17.316
judging it,

00:20:17.730 --> 00:20:19.280
whether that's right or wrong.

00:20:19.280 --> 00:20:21.200
For me it's not that right, but

00:20:21.200 --> 00:20:22.640
for someone else it won't

00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:24.860
matter. So I know AI is really

00:20:24.860 --> 00:20:26.420
shameless, it's capable of

00:20:26.420 --> 00:20:28.320
telling the client, hey, client,

00:20:28.320 --> 00:20:30.080
it wasn't ready, don't worry,

00:20:30.080 --> 00:20:31.840
it'll be there tomorrow, let's

00:20:31.840 --> 00:20:33.160
say. For me, that's not okay at

00:20:33.160 --> 00:20:35.020
all, but for AI it's totally

00:20:35.020 --> 00:20:35.970
normal.

00:20:36.109 --> 00:20:37.699
The optimal thing, because

00:20:37.919 --> 00:20:38.969
it was more

00:20:38.969 --> 00:20:39.969
important to apply

00:20:39.969 --> 00:20:41.609
super-engineering than to look

00:20:41.609 --> 00:20:42.249
good with the client.

00:20:42.249 --> 00:20:42.875
So

00:20:43.043 --> 00:20:44.323
I don't think it gets that

00:20:44.323 --> 00:20:45.193
balance right either.

00:20:45.193 --> 00:20:47.823
It lacks that street smarts, to

00:20:47.823 --> 00:20:49.723
say, do I deliver something

00:20:49.723 --> 00:20:52.773
so-so on time, versus deliver

00:20:52.875 --> 00:20:54.695
the teleport ship that goes

00:20:54.695 --> 00:20:56.595
three times the speed of light,

00:20:56.595 --> 00:20:57.535
but in a year?

00:20:57.535 --> 00:20:58.615
What's better?

00:20:58.615 --> 00:21:00.215
Give them something now and add

00:21:00.215 --> 00:21:01.275
improvements gradually.

00:21:01.275 --> 00:21:03.495
Oh no, this client is the

00:21:03.495 --> 00:21:05.035
cheapskate, the one who doesn't

00:21:05.035 --> 00:21:06.455
pay, if we lose him, no big

00:21:06.455 --> 00:21:07.264
deal,

00:21:07.264 --> 00:21:10.944
I focus on this one, which is

00:21:10.944 --> 00:21:12.684
the, let's say, even if it had

00:21:12.684 --> 00:21:14.624
all the data, which today they

00:21:14.624 --> 00:21:15.724
don't have, having that

00:21:15.724 --> 00:21:17.124
judgment, no, I don't see it

00:21:17.124 --> 00:21:18.288
right now, no.

00:21:18.288 --> 00:21:19.038
And

00:21:19.038 --> 00:21:20.308
how do you think, I mean, beyond

00:21:20.308 --> 00:21:22.148
AGI, how could it be done

00:21:22.148 --> 00:21:23.808
without reaching that point, but

00:21:23.808 --> 00:21:25.228
how could we get closer to that

00:21:25.228 --> 00:21:25.959
point?

00:21:25.959 --> 00:21:27.429
Of creating enough data to be

00:21:27.429 --> 00:21:28.969
able to feed it enough context

00:21:28.969 --> 00:21:30.089
so that it can make those

00:21:30.089 --> 00:21:32.129
decisions? I mean, right now

00:21:32.129 --> 00:21:33.369
there are tons of things that,

00:21:33.369 --> 00:21:35.049
like you say, are simply in our

00:21:35.049 --> 00:21:36.469
heads, in running the business,

00:21:36.469 --> 00:21:38.169
we know it works like this, this

00:21:38.169 --> 00:21:39.669
way, but it's that, necessarily,

00:21:39.669 --> 00:21:40.919
I mean,

00:21:40.951 --> 00:21:42.001
there's going to have to be a

00:21:42.001 --> 00:21:43.581
layer that encodes that

00:21:43.581 --> 00:21:45.201
knowledge that today is so, so

00:21:45.201 --> 00:21:47.441
ethereal, bringing it down to

00:21:47.441 --> 00:21:48.211
earth

00:21:48.431 --> 00:21:49.561
so that eventually it can

00:21:49.561 --> 00:21:51.501
actually be useful for the AIs,

00:21:51.501 --> 00:21:51.901
I suppose.

00:21:51.901 --> 00:21:53.521
So, I don't know, I think that

00:21:53.521 --> 00:21:55.191
would be one of the big ones,

00:21:55.191 --> 00:21:57.121
one of the big current needs in

00:21:57.121 --> 00:21:57.961
the world, I mean, something

00:21:57.961 --> 00:22:00.141
that somehow starts to analyze

00:22:00.141 --> 00:22:01.461
those business decisions, for

00:22:01.461 --> 00:22:02.910
example, the day-to-day of a

00:22:02.910 --> 00:22:04.191
hundred thousand executives.

00:22:04.191 --> 00:22:05.041
Well,

00:22:05.061 --> 00:22:05.861
the thing is that obviously

00:22:05.861 --> 00:22:06.841
they're not going to want to

00:22:06.841 --> 00:22:08.246
share that data, but, I mean,

00:22:08.246 --> 00:22:09.926
one way or another that's going

00:22:09.926 --> 00:22:11.606
to have to be solved at some

00:22:11.606 --> 00:22:13.306
point, I mean, how do we give

00:22:13.306 --> 00:22:15.179
the models that context?

00:22:15.179 --> 00:22:16.799
Because not everyone wants to

00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:18.139
share their processes, their

00:22:18.139 --> 00:22:19.459
internal thought process, their

00:22:19.459 --> 00:22:20.749
business processes,

00:22:20.794 --> 00:22:22.594
but everybody wants the results

00:22:22.594 --> 00:22:24.114
that an AI with that context

00:22:24.114 --> 00:22:25.654
would give them, you know what I

00:22:25.654 --> 00:22:27.244
mean? So, how do we do this?

00:22:27.307 --> 00:22:28.767
That's for next episode.